POST #3 - 1984 1.7-8
By now, you should have a better understanding of just what kind of world it is in which Winston lives. Notice the words that close Book 1 of this novel.... The effect of this?
1. "If there is hope. . .it lies in the proles." (60) How realistic or futile is this hope?
2. "I understand HOW: I do not understand WHY." (68) What's he mean here?
3. Theme alert: That final quote from Winston's journal (69): Discuss what he means here.
4. Ownlife. What is it and how suspect is it in the world of 2010?
5. How about his hope in the proles? (73) How does this relate to his musings in ch. 7? To his attempts to learn of the past from the old man in the pub? How did that conversation leave Winston feeling--and why?
6. A new character: Mr. Charrington. Winston makes another purchase: discuss its significance to him; how is it related to the nursery rhyme? to Mr. C.'s shop with its upstairs bedroom?
7. Think about how this chapter ends. What do you predict about what happens next? (NO spoilers, please! If you've already read this or seen the movie or read the synopsis don't go near this!)
1.It is very futile because "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, 85% of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated."
ReplyDelete2.i think that he is saying he understands how they took action in falsifying the past but he doesnt understand why they can't know and what the motive behind falsifying the past was.
3."Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else folllows." the line before his log in his journal states "that he was setting forth an important axiom, he wrote:" and then the line in his journal. I looked up the word axiom to help me asses the quote.
Axiom:
–noun
A) A self-evident or universally recognized truth; a maxim: "It is an economic axiom as old as the hills that goods and services can be paid for only with goods and services" (Albert Jay Nock).
B) An established rule, principle, or law.
C) A self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument; a postulate.
So what i think he is trying to say here is that everything in his world seems to have established laws that dont have any proof to back them up but is to be self-evident and universally recognized as the truth and nothing else.
4.Ownlife is to do anything that suggested a taste of solitude, even to go for a walk by yourself. People still do stuff by themselves but i dont think that it is as much as it used to be. Today when you go out you usually dont go alone you have your friends or go with your family but at least one other person is usually with you. There are people though who still go out and do stuff by themselves. I think however most of the time the reasons we don't is because it feels weird not having someone else there and you feel like your being looked at. Some of the reasons that people dont go out in public alone are for saftey precautions like when you were little and they told you to use the buddy system.
5.I think he has a lot of hope in the proles because he says "But if there was hope, it lay in the proles. You had to cling on to that. When you put it in words it sounded reasonable; it was when you looked at the human beings passing you on the pavement that it became an act of faith." This relates to his musings in ch. 7 by showing a little more as to what made the hope in the proles more evident to him. When Winston tries to ask the old man in the pub about the past and if life was better before the revolutionary or is life better now, he doesn't get very much out of the man. He is very dissapointed with the fact that his question doesn't get answered and begins to think that no one today not even the older folk would be able to answer his question because the old people only would tell you stories and details of their memories and no one today knows anything about back then except what they've been told in books.
6. Winston meets Mr. Charrington who i believe he bought the diary from im not really sure and then he revists again this time buying a glass paperweight with a piece of coral in it. Mr. Charrington sees his fascination with things of the past and decides to take him upstairs to a bedroom where he is trying to sell other things. He shows him a picture of a building which happens to be a building that winston recognizes. Mr. Charrington remembers a nursery rhyme which talks about this particular buildign which is really a church and many of the other principle churches in London. Winston never knew that the building had been a church and when the man starts to remember a little more of the nursery rhyme he discovers another building which is a museum that used to be a church. He begins to see a connection in the rhyme and the buildings around him.
7. I think he will finally confront the girl with dark hair and ask her why she keeps following him.
I don't understand why Winston is so confused about why the Party is controlling the past. He seems to understand most of the Party's other motives. I know why the Party controls it: because to control the past means to control the present and future. People learn from their mistakes and their accomplishments. If the proles and Party members knew what had happened in the past they might not fully agree with what the Party is doing. Rebellion would surely follow. I thought that that he had answered that question already.
ReplyDeleteUmm...so my point that I was going to make was summed up right there by Mary so I'm not exactly sure how I'm supposed to add onto that but...
ReplyDeleteI think the hope *does* lie in the proles because they are
a) the largest group
b) poorest and have nothing to lose
c) clever
d) not being watched
Is one born into a certain Party like a caste system or do you choose it? I think most people would rather be lower class and keep their freedom rather than middle/upper and be mentally enslaved.
while i agree with ashley about proles being the largest group, the poorest, and they have their freedom, i dont think that clever describes the prole class. they have been removed from politics and education so much that they have no political or educational base to start a revolution.
ReplyDeleteI'm confused why would winston would destroy the photo of some of the disgraced party members in new york but were apparently comitting treason in eurasia at the time, when he could have kept it in his diary.
ReplyDeleteWhy would he want to commit suicide when he sees the dark haired girl in blue party coveralls following him home?
Why does thinking of o'brian and the place of no darkness calm him down?
I also think its very creepy when he gets that note that said "here comes the chopper to chop off your head"
Who said this? Who thought this?
Winston wants to make suicide when he say the darked hair girl because he thinks she's watching him and is on too him about thoughtcrime. And so he would rather kill himself then be cruelly tortured by government before they kill him....
ReplyDeleteAnd i dont know..i think there could be hope on the proles...I mean winston felt there's no hope in them after talkin to the old man but it could just be because he's in a pub....
To Shambre- Winston destroyed the photo because the telescreen was watching him. To keep the photo would most likely lead to vaporization.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I believe that thinking of O'Brian calms Winston because that possibility that O'Brian is on his side gives him hope that he is not alone.
On another note...
I have the same confusion as Mary with the "I know how, but not why" thing. It seems apparent why the Party does what it does: for control.
I agree with Mary they do it for power and control but through the process of the revolution they lost the original ideals that they hoped to reach and as big brother turned into more of a dictorship the inner party too suffers as they cannot think in there own way and cant say or do anything to offend big brother the only person that seems to truly be free and enjoying his power is Big Brother.
ReplyDeleteI think there is power in the proles they out number the party however the party controls the military and untill the proles have influence with the military any uprising would be put down violently very easily. but corruption is coming the party should realize this.